Morfydd Clark - ContentMode

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“SAINT MAUD”

Interview by LAURA ALBERT

Photography:

ISMAEL CRUZ CORDOVA

Creative Director:

DEBORAH FERGUSON

Interview by Laura Albert
Transcription by Allie King

Morfydd Clark conveys a luminous, almost otherworldly presence – one that fits into film narratives where a transcendental quality is essential, as with her recent title role in writer/director Rose Glass’ Saint Maud: a young nurse suffering from trauma and delusions. While Saint Maud is classified in the horror genre, it is Clark’s complex performance, her delicate transmittal of a wounded, empathic tormented spirit, which keeps the audience rooting for her, while our heart breaks as we watch her spiral beyond human intervention. Clark’s performance never treads into the comic or grotesque, tropes too readily utilized when women with mental illness are depicted. She has already won the British/Irish Actress of the Year award from the London Critics’ Circle for her body of work with Saint Maud and Eternal Beauty, and been longlisted by BAFTA in the Leading Actress category for Saint Maud. And more honors will undoubtedly be coming her way.

It is no surprise that Clark has an instinctive sensitivity and compassion within the landscape of neurodiversity and trauma. She has helped disabled communities by being open about her struggles with her own disabilities and how the blessing of her supportive, medically educated family allowed her to flourish. Whether cast as the Dickensian-era Dora Spenlow in Armando Iannucci’s The Personal History of David Copperfield or appearing in HBO’s fantasy series His Dark Materials, Clark radiates complexity when inhabiting a character that, with different casting, might skew as a caricature. No doubt her incandescent warmth will be inescapable in her upcoming role in Amazon’s much-anticipated Lord of the Rings series. We spoke while Clark was on location during filming.

Hi. Thank you so much for creating time to do this. You are in New Zealand?

Thank you for talking to me, I am.

I have friends over there in New Zealand. It must be nice to be in a place where, with COVID-19 – while you have to follow protocol – it’s not death and disaster everywhere.

It feels like being on a different planet to everyone at home. It is very strange. You sometimes feel that you are like a little ghost watching New Zealand life, that you are not meant to be there. I feel a kind of the guilt of knowing everyone else in the whole world and everyone you know that is suffering. It makes my mind kind of explode, the difference in our lives here compared to everywhere else. I have been here since October 2019, so I have been here for ages.

Clothing and Accesories: CHANEL SS21 RTW

How long did you have to quarantine when you flew in?

We had a five-week lockdown, which was very strict, but early and effective. After that, there have been moments where we have gone into slightly higher intense regulations but never back to lockdown. So, it was just that five weeks.

You haven’t had to experience being on a set outside of New Zealand during COVID-19.

No. Well, the crew still has to cope quite a lot. The crew is all masked with visors, but the actors aren’t because of makeup and things. That also feels very unfair. We just don’t have the anxiety of catching it here, as well as the actual rules. There is just not the fear anymore. There was a fear here for about 3 months. Then the government acted so quickly and managed to control it. Where are you by the way?

I am in San Francisco, and it is just a disaster the way it is being handled here. Los Angeles asked for the Environmental Protection Agency laws to be changed so they can burn more bodies.

My god! That is so bleak.

Which brings up environmental racism. Because COVID-19 here is affecting disproportionately people of color – where those burning sites are disproportionately affects people of color. And we have reopened. The governor was like, “Not as many people are dying, so go out. But don’t go out.”

Here, the rules were so clear that I never feel like I had to make any calls, which I think is what people at home are finding very exhausting. “Should I do this? Should I do that?” New Zealand was never put in that space. It was very clear.

Clothing and Accesories: CHANEL SS21 RTW

I think that’s what people need. I think that is why Saint Maud worked so well. I don’t think of it as a horror film, it feels accurate and timely, as it very much deals with people who suffer severe isolation. I think in the US, what you have seen is the inability to discuss and explore how people have experienced trauma, have PTSD or Complex PTSD, within their lives. Then a situation like COVID-19 comes along and everything is within a framework of isolation, and the lack of access to services is an absolute horror. Your character does not even have social media, that doesn’t come into it. It seems through a flashback that there is triggering trauma and we can fill in the blanks to what put her in a position where she was so emotionally vulnerable. I heard Rose Glass, the writer/director of Saint Maud, decided not to reveal more background information on Maud, that your nuanced performance conveyed a felt background story of complex trauma. I did not need to know all the details.

That’s good to know.

What was your preparation to convey those places?

I was very lucky that I come from a family that has quite a lot of people working in the National Health Service, either as doctors or nurses. I spoke to them a lot and learned. I kind of realized how little you ask your family deep questions about themselves. Particularly my mum. In my entire twenties, I am kind of like, “Oh, my parents are people. Not just my parents.” I spoke a lot about burnout and what it means to lose your empathy when you go into a career that kind of requires a lot.

The moment that is shown in the film, a flashback that is particularly gruesome – I was like, “Do things like that… Could that be enough?” My mum was like, “The thing is, you can deal with those awful gruesome moments if you are supported and fulfilled and feel like you were doing your job well before.” She was saying that if you are in a system where, as a nurse, you are never managing to get to someone on time to make sure that they haven’t wet the bed, are not dehydrated, are not crying alone, or that their medicine is on time – if you are in a system that is so stressed that you can’t do all those things, and you become complicit in the humiliation of the people that you want to care for, then you have no resilience left if something particularly traumatic happens. That was really vital for me. That was the endpoint in a slow grinding down of who Maud was.

Within nursing, there has been an increasing number of suicides and bullying allegations. So you have this group of people that are not looked after within their job. I looked into that a lot. It’s an incredibly stressful job that people need to give a lot of themselves to. It is not appreciated or supported, and that made that make sense.

I imagine that Maud had gone through a lot of her life doing things slightly wrong, so there was an elevated level of criticism that was a normal part of her life. So the guilty feeling that you are not looking after your patients and the constant criticism means that God, who is all-forgiving and comforting, is so intoxicating to her.

‘I did really enjoy that there was no pressure for me to be pretty at all in Maud. I loved how gross she is and that they show that. Like her picking the scab. I am really so glad that we are kind of balancing out the female gorgeousness that
we have had on TV for so many years, with some female grossness. It’s like, we are just as bad as you.’

Of course it makes sense that it would be internalized as a punishing God, as much as she wants love. The character that she identifies as is just never enough, in basic recovery terms.

Yeah. Another thing I realized when talking to my family in health services, was that – and I was really surprised because these are the people that I think are the best people in my family because they do a job that is very complicated and requires a huge amount of care. This year more than ever we cheer, “The NHS are heroes.” I think you do forget that they are also people even though you are looking at them in positive ways. I was really surprised by how much guilt all of my family who worked in health services carry around. Because they hadn’t felt like they’d done the right thing because of the red tape within the system. I didn’t expect that guilt to be there. That also made the punishing aspect of Maud make so much sense. She really feels like deserves it.

That’s really, really interesting. The nurses and doctors here, they didn’t take a job to be a hero, to be fetishized as heroes or saints. They are being asked to be put in that position. Yet here we are giving, them this label, but not giving them the support they need to do their job.

MC: I think the feeling of being told you’re a hero while feeling like you are not even doing the bare minimum of what you could do for people is very confusing for the mind.

Clothing and Accesories: CHANEL SS21 RTW

Did you have to have a sensitivity counselor or coach on set, because there is an intense sex scene.

Yes. It wasn’t exactly that but the producers of this film got everyone together before the first day and laid out very strict ground rules about what type of production this would be. There would be no bullying. If there was any racism, sexism, homophobia, ableism, or anything like that, it was to be spoken about and people were to feel comfortable speaking up. I had never really experienced that, even though I have been on lots of nice jobs. They also encouraged people to, if you thought that people aren’t being treated well, speak for them. I think everyone felt very protected.

The people who wanted to be involved in this project, and the people that Rose Glass connected with, are very empathetic. They understood Maud. We were very lucky with the group of people we had. I felt incredibly safe. There were a few moments, which happens when you have a tight schedule and not the biggest budget, where there were big mistakes. The ways that they were handled showed the integrity and kindness of the whole production.

Can you give me an example?

Just mistakes being made, wherein other circumstances someone might be shouted at. That wasn’t the environment on Maud. I really felt like we were creating an environment where Maud would be safe. There was no hypocrisy in that, from the people at the top all the way down.

From what I have gathered from interviews, it sounds like you guys kind of really locked in. When tension had built, the fact that a grip could make a joke to break the tension, knowing that it wasn’t going to be distracting.

Everyone was very professional. We were often filming in tiny rooms, so the shapes people were getting in, trying to avoid being in my eye line, that was quite exceptional. I just feel that everyone was comfortable, and maybe that there were a lot of first-timers in this. Everyone felt so grateful for people who had done a lot. So there was a lot of trust in people’s abilities and expertise. I think this created a very comfortable environment.

For me, as someone who can get a bit anxious or sad depending on the character I am playing, the jokes and one-liners from the crew have often gotten me through many moments. I am much better in every sense if there is a set where everyone can relax and kind of joke when the camera is not rolling. I shudder to think what my mental state would have been in had Saint Maud been a very different vibe set. Because there was a lot to cope with in terms of just thinking about her. That was at times quite heavy because I recognized her in so many people – and myself.

‘I imagine that Maud had gone through a lot of her

life doing things slightly wrong,

so there was an elevated level of criticism

that was a normal part of her life.

So the guilty feeling that you are not

looking after your patients

and the constant criticism means that God

who is all-forgiving

and comforting, is so intoxicating to her.’

What were the character traits within yourself that you called upon?

This is something that I see in everyone and it makes me kind of emotional. Maud is constantly striving, putting in so much effort to be better. When met with little reward, that is heartbreaking. But also, I have ADHD. I feel like I am just blabbering on about this all the time. But I am very familiar with saying the wrong thing and realizing that the tone of the room is different from what’s come out of my mouth. I am not diagnosing Maud with ADHD, which I do not think she has. But I definitely thought that she would have been in those spaces as well, where without realizing, she has done the wrong thing and is suddenly in trouble. But also there is an element of masking to her, to try and avoid those situations.

I used to always think about her going into nursing, and she is surrounded by these easy, chatty people that are quite comfortable with themselves, which is represented by Lily Knight’s character, Joy. Though she smokes a huge amount and is obviously stressed by work, she, as a personality, fits in quite well with the world. There were just constant moments where Maud was amongst her co-workers saying the wrong thing and not fitting it. A way for her to deal with that was to become incredibly superior because she couldn’t bear the opposite.

I think that is captured so beautifully in the spaces in between, and I like that there are those spaces to fill in. Everything doesn’t have to be spelled out. I relate to how Maud is aware she is different and can alarm others. For myself, being neurodiverse, in a new situation I say to myself, “Laura, keep your tail in.” What might otherwise be considered weird can get framed in a way that puts them at ease: “Oh, you are an artist!” It’s disappointing, because we should all be able to be transparent. Instead, because I have some level of “fame,” I am “allowed” or permitted to be eccentric or different.

I think about this all the time. I feel that so strongly as well. I am allowed to be eccentric. I think you are allowed to be eccentric if you are an artist or rich. In other ways, no.

Clothing and Accesories: CHANEL SS21 RTW

And it’s difficult as a woman. I have read things describing me as “troubled,” when people didn’t want to do their research. And in a man the attribution is a positive. If someone has a trauma-informed approach to truth-seeking, how we view situations and people is very different. But again it’s harder to be neurodiverse when you do not have that ready identification of writer or artist, etc. I was interested when I read about how you left school, your struggles with dyslexia and ADHD. First of all, it seems like your family was very supportive.

Yeah, I was incredibly lucky with my family. I not only had a supportive family but my mum was a pediatrician who worked in Child Development, so I couldn’t have been luckier. She would sometimes be like, “If you would’ve had different parents, you would be setting fire to things by now.” My mum very much understood that there were environments that, no matter how much I tried, I wouldn’t be able to be comfortable within. So there was never any pressure for me to go to University and in terms of school, she knew when I just couldn’t cope with it anymore. I have really been very sheltered from lots of the real-life effects of having ADHD by my family – and then by the job that I got into.

What was that point when you knew that it wasn’t tolerable and/or something was different?

I knew I was different from age seven when I started having medication for it. I understood that something was different but I didn’t understand what it was. I’d go and get my tablet in the staff room at lunchtime and there was a boy a few years above me who had an illness that required lots of medication, but I didn’t know this at the time. I remember seeing him get lots of tablets, cause that’s what he needed, and being like “Wow. He must be really naughty because I am quite naughty and I get one tablet.” I think quite early on you label yourself as naughty and bad. So I understand that aspect of Maud in terms of feeling that things are being put on you that don’t feel like they fit.

I am on the board of the Independent Living Resource Center of San Francisco and we help people with disabilities stay independent and in their communities. What is wonderful is proving that with support, people can do what was not thought possible. Before, folks were simply dumped in institutions. For instance, you have issues with dyslexia and ADHD, but you are in situations that take phenomenal amounts of focus and reading scripts. What is your approach?

My mom has ADHD and she is a pediatrician. She would always tell all her patients with ADHD that she has ADHD, so that they could see that they could be a doctor.

Clothing and Accesories: CHANEL SS21 RTW

So you had that modeled, that it wasn’t a limitation. That’s amazing.

Right. My mum is really wonderful. And so is my dad. I feel that acting really suits me because sometimes I struggle with a whole day rehearsal in a play, but film is very short moments of intense concentration. Then you can snap out of it. Also, the stakes are high. If I was going to have to do something boring like writing an essay, I can only do it under huge amounts of pressure and adrenaline. Being on set you have short bursts with pressure and it’s fun. In terms of learning lines, I will just wander around my flat or town saying them. There is no structure. I struggle when there is a structure enforced on me, that I can’t do. Within film, I am allowed to be fluid and structured within this world. I thought about that a lot with Maud. Because I thought, “Would I have been bullied a lot if I had been in an office, because I would just be annoying? Would I be fired a lot for being late?”

People with ADHD find it really hard to put effort into things that they don’t find interesting. So, it’s about finding the thing that your child or person with ADHD is passionate about and finding a way to make that part of your world.

To me, it’s very clear that you had that huge capacity to lock-in. There is a great intelligence and emotional resonance going into what you are conveying. First of all, mazel tov on the London Critics Circle nomination!

Thank you! I can’t believe it. It’s all very surreal.

There are endless horrific things about Trump, but the utter incapacity for compassion and empathy was stunning – and it gave strength to the illusion that being cruel was the correct approach. Gloria Steinem has said that we can find out how a government will be militarized against their own citizens by gauging how they take care of women and children. We don’t seem to value taking care of others, especially people with physical or psychiatric disabilities.

There was a book that also opened my mind in terms of understanding where people come from. I followed this woman ever since I read her book. My sister was in a play of it. She is someone that I wish that Maud could have met before. It is Rene Denfeld’s book The Enchanted. She is a death row investigator in real life, and she wrote this book about a death row investigator. It explores the lives of different people on death row. I recognized a lot of my mum’s words in it. My mom always used to say when they were cutting social services, “We get the people we deserve.” That stuck with me. I think this book really explores that.

Clothing and Accesories: CHANEL SS21 RTW

‘Maud is constantly striving,

putting in so much effort to be better.

When met with little reward, that is heartbreaking.’

You played Dora in The Personal History of David Copperfield. How did it feel to go from a high costume drama to playing a character like Maud, who is not prioritizing beauty?

I did really enjoy that there was no pressure for me to be pretty at all in Maud. I loved how gross she is and that they show that. Like her picking the scab. I am really so glad that we are kind of balancing out the female gorgeousness that we have had on TV for so many years, with some female grossness. It’s like, we are just as bad as you.

It’s human. I think it’s getting back to being human.

Yeah. Whereas we have been dolls for a long time on screen.

To me, I didn’t look at Maud and think “She’s ugly.” You are very beautiful and that shines through. I love that moment where –

Oh, there is that moment when Amanda is like, “Oh, she’s prettier than the last one.”

Right. I like that glimmer of acknowledgment in Maud and how that feeds her. It’s a little pollination of your character.

I found the costumes in David Copperfield and the ridiculousness of how Dora looks, made me realize in the terms of masking as well. I really imagined Dora in her room after a day of being charming and bubbly, that she’s just silent and slouchy in her bedroom.

Clothing and Accesories: CHANEL SS21 RTW

It’s amazing when you think about how much was informed by clothes for woman in that Dickensian time period, how they had to be physically restrictive, the strict rules around how they had to dress and present within a woman’s class.

It was also really wonderful for me to be in David Copperfield while I was cast as Maud. The whole thing in David Copperfield is creating a kind world where everyone is treated fairly. I just thought about her a lot. Just imagine if Betsey Trotwood looked after Maud. What would she be like then? Being in an old story that encourages us to shape a better future, I found was a wonderful tonic to the world of Maud.

That’s wonderful, meeting your characters and having them support each other in a way. Like in Maud’s fantasy projections that often turned horrible, but this way you are kind of changing the narrative in that realm.

Yes.

‘There were just constant moments where Maud was amongst her co-workers saying the wrong thing and not fitting it. A way for her to deal with that was to become incredibly superior because she couldn’t bear the opposite.’

So, the film you are doing now, you were physically training today?

Yes. We are either filming quite intensely or I just feel like I am at a summer camp doing activities.

How much did you have to train beforehand?

I was here for about four months before we started, which was really nice. I also felt like I just fit into New Zealand by the time we started filming. I didn’t feel caught up in a whirlwind, which I expected to. It’s been quite gradual. Slightly more gradual than we’d hoped because of the world as it’s been.

How does it feel going from Maud who has a different physicality to, I’d think, the most physically strenuous role, where you have to train. How have you changed emotionally, being in a more physically strong body?

I don’t know. My body does feel stronger but my emotions still feel very soft. I think that is just how I am. It’s frustrating that getting up early and doing exercise actually does help. I had to accept that on this job.

Thank you so much for your generosity of your time. Thank you so much for your radiant work, we look forward to more.

Thank you!