Interview by Laura Albert
LA: Hi Lawrence, it is an honor to meet you, at least here. It feels like we are so similar. We grew up were there was no term for what we felt inside. I wrote about what was deeply true for me, before there were the terms gender fluid, gender variant, etc. What I have come to understand is creating the existence of JT Leroy helped contribute to the recognition of a non-binary identity. He didn’t refer to himself as trans — he was gender fluid. Do you feel that way in the stories your allow to come through you, that is not only communicating your deeper ecstatic truth but being of service to others?
LR: Along my path of coming terms with how I felt inside your books actually gave me solace. At the time of course I did not all that was involved with JT but the character in the stories and the fluidity of how they were presented in real life helped me feel more comfortable in my skin. If I didn’t have people like prince, David Bowie, Kurt Cobain and JT Leroy- I would have been truly lost. These artist helped me understand in my closed mined Maryland heights, mo that its ok to wear and look exactly how you see yourself inside. I would hope through my own art the people scattered throughout the country who have to hide behind a facade – who are are presenting a false self to world – that I can inspire them to let them live a healthy life as their authentic self. Love me or hate me- but I am living as “me”.
LA: Anne Carson wrote about “A certain fundamental opacity of human being, which likes to show the truth by allowing it to be seen hiding.” which is my truth. It is critical we hear stories of and impact of the struggle a child endures when a parent attempts to enforce a gender binary upon a child who does not relate to that paradigm. It’s like yelling at deaf child demanding they will hear. You have shared so openly about your struggle with this with your father, can you discuss what you endured and how has seeing your art impacted your connection to your family?
LR: To this day most of my family don’t want to believe I am gender fluid. They are in denial. Growing up they sent me to every shrink, counselor they could send me too. Oh “he” is not acting correct “he” needs to be sorted out. Luckily my mother understood how me and what I was going through and let me develop my own identity without trying to force me to be someone I am not. The rest my family were fucking nightmare. And my friends as well. Many still cant expect how I identify myself . These so called friends are also self proclaimed “freethinkers” champion liberal ideas…its extremely heartbreaking.
LA: So much was if the time period, there was not the language for what we were. I am getting inundated with supportive communications from around the world — people who appreciate the work and the way it was expressed. There are so many who are relieved to know they are not alone. They call hotlines, they use food or other substances, they are survivors, they are unsure of their sexuality, they have suffered trauma and they need desperately to tell. They are struggling to use art to express what can feel like inexpressible. I have found using art is generous way to release, explore and share the realm of gender – how did the struggle with your father and the culture inform your creative outlets and concepts you explore?
LR: My lifeline has always been music and the visual medium. If didn’t have songwriting as my coping outlet – I wouldn’t be here talking with you now. My piano, my guitar my voice are my therapy that no professional could tackle. Art is the ultimate therapy in my book. An I believe every human being is an artist. The healing powers of painting, writing . Singing etc are the medicine of the gods. I have tried every illegal coping mechanism on the planet and nothing works to heal what only you can heal through a sober mindset
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LA: I was raised more culturally jewish, I spent more times in churches than synagogues, but themes of judaism is steeped in my identity – and my work. Being second generation American, growing up around Holocaust survivors and knowing family was murdered in camps impacted me greatly and is there in my work but heavily disguised. Only some have spotted it. How does your judaism influence your work?
LR: I am proud jew. The jewish lifestyle and traditions have given me a sense on grounding and belonging. I am enthralled by the Kabbalah and jewish esoteric methods and magic.Without judaism and art I would be a lost little alien
LA: For me, I cant remember a time when I did not have “Others’ or as you call them, “Alters”, when did they makes themselves knows to you? Mine for the most part were boys, they told me their stories, what did yours do or how did they communicate?
LR: My “alters’ appeared at a very young age. Maybe 3 or 4 years old and have been with me my entire life. I have many of them tho there are a recurring 9. They are female, male and non binary. They help me survive they daily grind and unpredictable world
LA: Your producer and friend Justin Raisen is an exponent of various techniques to induce creativity from Brian Eno’s oblique strategies deck to the yogic practices of paramahansa yogananda , did this come into play in your experience with him in the studio?
LR: We used Eno’s deck daily. Starting on day one of entering the studio. It was used so much that by the end of the 2 year process making the album I had created my own which I now have for sale at my shows and website.
LA: I have a connection to your creative partner award winning director Floria Sigismondi. JT Leroy was approached to write the screenplay for The Runaways film, which Floria Sigismondi made into the visually arresting film. Her works is visually arresting, do you collaborate with her and if so what has been her influence on your music and visual creations?
LR: Floria is my creative rock. We are two peas in a pod, twin flames. Literally love all the same art its crazy. When I work on song and I tell her what I was seeing visually while writing she can take these dream images and bring them to life. Its spooky as fuck, to walk into a room and see a daydream you had at one that helped shape a song standing in front of you in real life. We inspire each other and push each other to create with over analyzing and be fluid with following the muse.
LA: What was the inspiration for the title book of law, and if connected to liber legis, and do you explore or play with themes of Crowley/thalamic magick practice? Does your understanding of that work incorporate or play with or explore the idea of alters related to a honeycombing effect of trauma and the creation of “alters”?
LR: The name “The Book of Law” came from a nickname producer Justin Raisen gave me. He calls me law. I wrote over 100 songs for the album fully produced that we kept on hard drives titled different chapters. These hard drives which spanned so many genre’s — alt country, electronic, psych folk, rock, jazz — was called law’s booked them morphed into “The Book of Law”. The record is so autobiographical that it truly is a book of my life. Coincidentally the great magician Aleister Crowley has “The Book of Law”. I have explored much of Crowley writings and continue too.
LA: Your new single oath just released, directed by Floria Sigismondi, it’s so very lovely, what was the references and inspirations behind its creations?
LR: The video was shot in Joshua Tree and explores the themes of possessions and anxiety that can take over the mind and lead you down the corridors of no return. The exorcism is performed in an interpretive dance by Denna and myself. It was part one to the ‘Decade’ video which came out as well.
LA: The way you story tell with fashion reminds me so much of Alexander McQueen. Who are some of the artists who are mentors for you?
LR: Some of my favorites are Frida Kahlo, Mike Kelly, sylvia plath, francois truffaut, william blake, isadora duncan, henry miller
LA: Thanks so much for your support. When I saw what you’d written about my work, it means to much to me – I re-posted and wrote this:
I am so moved when someone is willing to take a step back, reflect on my work & is open to reexamining their initial reaction. I appreciate post by #lawrencerothman “Sarah was my favorite book for years until I found out it was all faked by a 30-something women and JT Leroy was a fictional author, not real. Then I hated it.It took me a few years to get over it then I felt like well Laura Albert the real author is actually a genius and would love to hear more from her cause JT must be a real side of her personality as I have discovered inside myself – I have many.” (The Beat, January 2018)
LR: Laura I love your work so much you are a hero to me, and it was a pleasure to talk with you. Sending you much love!